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RUBY:

From Schwartz Media. I’m Ruby Jones. This is 7am.

On the tiny island nation of Nauru, at this moment, close to a hundred asylum seekers are living hand to mouth.

The overwhelming majority are still waiting for their refugee status to be determined, with no timeframe for a decision. In the meantime, they're forbidden to work and are reliant on a tiny stipend, not enough for three meals a day.

The government has, for the most part, succeeded in keeping offshore processing off the front page. And there was a time a year ago when the centre on Nauru was completely empty. But as boats continue to arrive, Nauru is still central to the Australian government’s immigration response.

Today, contributor to The Saturday Paper Denham Sadler, on life on Nauru and whether the policy of offshore detention will ever end.

It’s Thursday, November 28.

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RUBY:

So Denham, let's start with this point in time last year when Nauru detention centre was finally empty. And it did for a moment feel like this could be the end of offshore detention completely. There was even a celebration, wasn't there, when the last person left?

DENHAM:

Yeah, there was. It was kind of this big moment that was celebrated, especially by advocates that have been campaigning for that for more than a decade by that point. People were excited and thought maybe this could be a changing point. The last people had been kind of taken to Australia or resettled somewhere else and there were hopes that the offshore regime might either be changed or that just be less of a focus on the offshore detention. But yeah, if you were paying full attention, it was pretty clear that there wasn't actually a big change.

Audio Excerpt - Anthony Albanese:

“We need to make sure that we send a strong message that people who come in an unauthorised fashion won't be settled in Australia and that is what we have done. Operation Sovereign Borders is in place.”

DENHAM:

There were still hundreds of millions of dollars going towards keeping the regional processing centres up and running, there were still some people on PNG as well, so the regime was still ongoing, and in the time when they assumed it was actually empty, Australia entered into a new contract with a company to run the offshore processing facilities and that was with a very controversial US company that mainly runs private prisons and immigration detention centres in the US. So there was never any real signal from the government that it was going to end, that they were going to shut down the centre, that they were moving away from it. It was kind of just the fact that it was briefly empty.

RUBY:

Okay so, the centre was sitting there open but empty, essentially really a symbol of Australia's offshore detention policy and a reminder of what could happen if you did try to get to Australia by boat. So when did that change? When did people start getting sent there again?

DENHAM:

It changed very quickly. It was a matter of months that it was actually empty and then there were some stories of boats actually arriving in Australia.

Audio Excerpt - News Reporter:

“It's understood a boat from Indonesia with 12 people on board made it to shore in a very remote part of the Kimberley region in Western Australia, known as the Anjo Peninsula.”

DENHAM:

The one that got the most coverage were, kind of, people showing up in quite regional Western Australia and just getting found by locals. And then these people were eventually taken to Nauru. But there's been quite a lot over the end of last year and start of this year of people arriving on asylum seeker boats and these people were taken to Nauru. So it was really a matter of months that the centre was back up and running with people actually in it. Currently there are just under 100 people. We know there's just over 80 people that are now living in the community on Nauru, so they're free to move around the island, but they can't leave the island. And there's just over ten people still in closed detention facilities there in that one facility. So yeah, just under 100 are there at the moment.

RUBY:

As you say, boats have started to arrive in Australia once again. Do we know why that is?

DENHAM:

We don't, really. I think you could talk to a lot of people and get a lot of different answers. And I think at its base we're also not really sure that they have increased a lot. I think there's so much secrecy and a lack of transparency about boat arrivals and especially in terms of boat turnbacks as well, that we really don't know if there's just more making it further, if there's more being reported or if there has been an increase. But if you ask the Opposition, they'd point to what they say is, kind of, a lack of funding within home affairs and the detection ability of the border force. And they'd also point to a lot of the debate last year around the High Court decisions around immigration detention, and they've been saying that, kind of, the people smuggling organisations are using that to, kind of, sell this package to get to Australia, saying there's been a change in policies and you're more likely to be able to stay and not go to immigration detention. They would be arguing that, the government would push back very strongly against that and we actually really don't know if there has been an increase and why there has been. It's just not enough information to know that.

RUBY:

And can you tell me a bit more about the people there and what their life is like?

DENHAM:

Yeah so, I spoke to four people for this story on the weekend and they all had pretty similar experiences. They're living in this massive facility that's known as RPC3, the Regional Processing Centre Three, which is a big complex unit of small one bedroom, one bathroom facilities. Back when there were a lot more people on Nauru, it was used for families and families with young children. But at the moment it's pretty much all young men. And they describe the main thing is just the uncertainty. They all mentioned to me, they just don't know what's happening. A lot of them hadn't heard of Nauru when they were taken there, they didn't know where they were. And then the other main thing that they all mentioned was just the real struggle to get by day to day and to afford basic necessities. So the Australian Government is providing them with $230 a fortnight.

RUBY:

So what does that look like for them? $230 a fortnight in Nauru.

DENHAM:

It looks like really scraping to get by. I think with the cost of living is extremely high on Nauru and especially the cost of basic food and vegetables and water is extremely high. They say they spend about $70 a fortnight just on drinking water, on bottled water, and try and afford to pay for phones and for data to talk to their family as well. And I think every person I spoke to said they couldn't afford three meals a day, they're eating less than they should be and they can't afford, kind of, good fruit and vegetables. There are health services on Nauru and one man told me that he goes to them and he's feeling weak and tired and they say, well, you need to eat more food, more vegetables. And he just can't afford it. Like one of them, one of the men said a small cabbage can cost $15 or $20. They all say it's just not enough money to just be able to feed themselves, let alone to live.

RUBY:

So essentially, they're living in poverty.

DENHAM:

Absolutely. Yeah, they definitely would be, yeah, they're not affording three meals a day. And on top of that, most of the men there haven't had their refugee status determined. And then until that's determined, they're not allowed to work either. So even if they could find work on Nauru while they're living in the community, they're not allowed to. So it is entirely down to that $230.

RUBY:

After the break, how the government defends the $230 a fortnight it expects people to survive on.

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RUBY:

So, Denham, the majority of these people on Nauru at this moment, they're waiting to hear about their refugee status. They don't yet know how that's going to pan out. What kind of information are they getting about that process and what is communication with the Australian Government like?

DENHAM:

They say they're getting very little information. That was the main concern along with the money issues, was just a lack of transparency around any sort of timeframes of when that will be decided and what will happen to them, whichever way the decision goes. One of the men I talked to said he has had one of his claims rejected and he's kind of getting threatened or says he's getting threatened to return to his home country. And that's going through appeals at the moment. But everyone got, obviously having their status determined and just say they haven't got any clear idea of what's going to happen to them and when it will happen. The Asylum Seeker Resource Centre has now talked to the majority of people that are being held on Nauru, and they say that nearly a quarter of these people are suffering severe mental health conditions already and that 1 in 10 are experiencing suicidal ideation. So this process is really having a toll on these people already and we're not sure how long they'll be there.

RUBY:

And at this point, after more than a decade, almost 15 years, of offshore detention, we know so much about the cruelty of it and the damage that it does to people, both their physical health, their mental health. So what is the Australian Government saying about this practice now and why it's continuing to hold people on Nauru?

DENHAM:

It's still quite a similar argument that has been across governments and across the decade in terms of deterrence. There's still that argument of saying we're doing this to stop people getting on these dangerous boats to come to Australia. We're doing this to help people. That's the main argument. There's obviously a lot of the political arguments and a general fear to, kind of, do any changes because there will be massive political attacks.

RUBY:

I mean, last week there was another boat arrival on an island just off the Northern Territory and the Opposition leader, Peter Dutton, he went on Sky News and he said that it's clear the people smugglers believe they are back in business.

Audio Excerpt - Peter Dutton:

“Well, it's clear that the people smugglers believe that they're back in business. This is now the 23rd boat arrival, and it's another one that's been undetected. Our borders are not secure under the Albanese government.”

RUBY:

Which is, you know, a very old Coalition line on this. But as we approach another election, what do you think all of this means for Australia's immigration policies? How do you think it's going to play out over the next few months?

DENHAM:

I think particularly in light of the Government's announced legislation recently in terms of the immigration detention decision and around actually being out of the country to offer visas to these people and then put them in detention if they say no, I think that just signals a hardline approach to this issue and a government that kind of just wants it to go away and not being the centre of attention. I think even among advocates or people that feel strongly about this, there wasn't much awareness around how many people are on Nauru at the moment. I think people recognised the celebration last year and there was some hope that things had changed and there weren't people in offshore detention, but there are a lot of people and I don't think there's a lot of awareness around that yet. And I think that's how the Government would like it. I think they'd very much prefer this to be out of sight, out of mind. But this issue did come up recently at a Senate Estimates hearing that Home Affairs were appearing at.

Audio Excerpt - Fatima Payman:

“The Asylum Seeker Resource Centre reported last month that the majority of people held in closed detention on Nauru have recently been moved into the community, with many now struggling to afford three meals a day.”

DENHAM:

They are aware of the issues around money and not being able to afford meals, and in response the representative from Home affairs said that $230 had been decided based on cost of living on Nauru and that they thought it was adequate but it's constantly being reviewed.

Audio Excerpt - Joe Feld:

“There are a range of services provided to transferees currently living in the community on Nauru. They are provided by the government of Nauru in accordance with the regional processing arrangements. They include a number of welfare services, health services and other sort of general activities to support the arrangements.”

DENHAM:

But basically all we've heard from Home Affairs is that there's a processing and quarantine phase which is in closed detention and then they're released to the community. But I couldn't get any information on how long that is or if it's a set time or anything like that.

RUBY:

And Australia's treatment of refugees, this is something that you've followed for a long time and written many stories about and I just wonder, is it your sense that this is now Australia's forever policy? Because it's been this way my entire adult life. So what would it take for things to look any different?

DENHAM:

It is very hard to see it changing, it's been that way in my entire adult life too. And I think its advocates are finding it very hard to change kind of the public perception. And that's how you go about change, I suppose. I think there was hope last year, like we discussed, with Nauru being empty, but the actual machinations behind it meant it was never going to be empty for very long and there wasn't any real change or positive movement from the government.

I think there's always a bit of hope, but I think when you see the Labor Government announce policies like the last couple of weeks we've seen and in general continuing this offshore regime, it is very hard to see there'll be any positive change for these people.

Yes, there's less people on Nauru, but there still are people there and they're living in poverty. And I think for a lot of people it's easier either to not know about or not think about it.

RUBY:

Denham, thank you so much for your time.

DENHAM:

Thanks for having me.

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RUBY:

Also in the news today...

Kristian White, the NSW Police officer who tasered 95 year old Clare Nowland in a nursing home in Cooma last year, has been convicted of manslaughter, which carries a maximum prison sentence of 25 years.

White’s barrister had attempted to argue White had used reasonable force when firing his taser at the great grandmother, who was carrying a serrated knife. The prosecutor argued Nowland presented no safety risk given her age and reliance on a walker.

And,

A 60 day ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah is underway.

The terms of the deal will see Israel withdraw from southern Lebanon and Hezbollah move its weaponry further north of the border.

Should the ceasefire hold, the end of the 60 day period will be the start of negotiations over the disputed border.

I’m Ruby Jones, this is 7am. Thanks for listening.

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